Spondon 500 SELVA

[Andy Guy]

Does anyone have photo's of the SELVA spondon 500 single when it was fitted with the two stroke engine and not the B50?
Different bike to the Pheonix btw.

[Paul C]

I think it was actually a twin Andy, created by using 2 Greeves Silversone top ends, and I think Bob Stevenson made the cases.

There was a discussion about it a while back, over on the motorcycle racing nostalgia forum, and I think someone posted a photo, if I can can find it I'll post the link.

Edit, Not so sure now as the Greeves forum talks about the engine being a 500 single unit designed by Greeves for motor cross!!

[Spen]

...

[Andy Guy]

Thanks Bill.

As you can see it can't be mistaken with any other chassis.

Paul. Two completely different bikes. The twin was the pheonix. Similar to a mk2 Seeley with 38mm ish tubing. Twin cylinder utilising various villiers,greeves etc parts with a jackshaft to a bsa rrt2 gearbox. I guess a slightly different aproach to the DKW typhoon. I haven't seen the selva with the single two stroke engine but my guess is it was either a 380 greeves engine or a QUB 500 that  Ray McCullough used. Incidentally I believe QUB hada hand in the 380 anyway. 

[Spen]

DMW Typhoon......

[Andy Guy]

For anyone interested in the QUB500 saga and subsequent 500 SELVA.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/classic-dirtbike/20160517/281917362294870

[Paul C]

For anyone interested in the QUB500 saga and subsequent 500 SELVA.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/classic-dirtbike/20160517/281917362294870

Interesting read Andy thanks, and yes I'm getting confused between the two Greeves based motors, it's all so long ago now

[Andy Guy]

There was a thread some time ago about the 500cc based villiers twins basically started because an old chap I know wanted to build one for the IOM. Quite a bit of research was done and he managed to get most parts together to build the starting of a bike. Various things happened over a short period that meant it wouldn't happen. He since started playing with an ariel arrow that he's made into a disc valve. More of a garage show piece than anything else. I went down to see him over the Holiday to make sure he was ok and he showed me a few pictures he'd taken over the years regarding British 2 stroke specials. The Selva was mentioned along with the numerous qub500's of which the previous thread highlighted that there was only 1 hence the reason no one had replicated it. The crmc only allow recreations if there were more than one manufactured or, the 1 and only special no longer exists. The Selva definitely no longer exists. After being fitted with the B50 engine it was later cut up. That was the written word by the owner. The makes the selva a proposition to produce and be given eligibility.  On the other hand the QUB was built with 3 different engine and gearbox combinations and 3 different frames. So a one off it was not.
What we haven't found is which 500 villiers/QUB engine was first fitted in the Selva. I'm Trying to find the contact details of Frank Ball. The Cambridge farmer as he has that knowledge. Possibly even Brian Woolley or Mick Walker, you never know.

[Paul C]

Or Stuart Tiller might be able to help Andy? I found some details for him via google recently, no phone or email but there is a postal address for him on the companies house site.

[Will Loder]

Frank Ball I believe passed away a few years ago and his bikes were sold at Auction. I believe the Selva and Franks bikes were at different points in time fitted with the 500 greeves engine that was developed but which was never very good. Frank's bike was later fitted with an Oulton engine and was sold at auction.  It was paraded at the Castle Coombe meeting a few years ago.

https://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/forums/forum/machine-specific-forums/racing-machines/738-ex-frank-ball-greeves-oulton-racer-in-cheffin-s-auction-today-16-10-2010

Frank Balls Greeves at Castle Coombe:
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/ridesfiles/castle-combe-grand-national-motorcycle-race-2015.html

The 500 Greeves engine was a big 380 Griffon I believe that was different to the later 380 QUB Greeves and very  different to the 500 QUB race bike which I believe had real potential. Surely the issue with the SELVA in 2 stroke form and the QUB 500 is they are both too new to be classic eligible and would probably be too time consuming and expensive to develop for AC500.....   

[Andy Guy]

Will. Yes that's Franks bike. Neither Spondon or Qub though. In that guise at least.
I have pictures of the Qub with the pre unit and the later Greeves unit motocross 500 engine. The three photo's clearly show the three different frames. The first bike is believed to have been used in 68. I'm not 100% sure yet but I'll keep looking. Its prety much the same time as your 350 Will.

[Will Loder]

I doubt the Selva raced in 68 as the Spondon Oulton wasn't about by then. The cutoff for 2 strokes is 67 but the Oulton and Bultaco TSS350 were allowed because the prototype machine was raced in 1967.

I'm not saying I don't think the QUB500 should be allowed as it would be a great proposition but I can't imagine the CRMC would permit it.  I thought the earlier QUB was the 250 version.....Ron Herring would know......I think.

[vince gunning (vinny g)]

I was fortunate to know Brian Woolley quite well back in the 80's. I remember being up there and him letting me scroll through his notes on engine development over the years. I say notes...there was book after book! The 350 Oulton was certainly one of his fave projects and, along with Bob Stevenson, they made theirs quite some weapon. I think he detailed a little of what went into the engine in a Classic Racer piece about the bike. Fascinating times, and people, that are unlikely to be repeated.

[arthur lewthwaite g50d]

andy type in geeves sponson images,when the pictures come up you will see one says oultons-greeves riders association click on it and read writing between pictures,the guy who posted is oulton 344 on the grieves forum.ot

[Andy Guy]

Arthur

That is where part of the info came from. Not interested in the 250/350. Only a Greeves engined 500. Selva framed or Spondon.

Btw, Answer your emails please.

Will
Not really bothered about the crmc gp1. Who in their right mind would want to spend a weekend constantly changing tyres. The european racing is 72/3 cut off. Then there is post classic or what ever.

Vince
A font of information. You certainly have been about a bit.

Does anyone have a copy of Mick Walkers book " British racing motorcycles". or the Colin Seeley autobiography?