Author Topic: Spondon 500 SELVA  (Read 6169 times)

Will Loder

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2019, 10:47:52 AM »
Some photos of the first version of a QUB have appeared on Facebook. It's basically a mk3 seeley complete with seeley drums and AMC box. The engine is definately not a Greeves based unit as a single central exhaust port on the bike centre line and the crankcases and transfers look a lot better.  There is also a photo of Colin Seeley holding the engine on Google images. There is an SAE technical paper about it too:

S.A.E, paper #710082
'Design and Initial Development of a High Specific Output 500 cc Single-Cylinder, Two-Stroke, Racing Motorcycle Engine' by G.P.Blair and W.L.Cahoon.


All the photos I've seen of the 500 greeves engine show essentially a bigger 380 Griffon cylinder, with special unit construction cases which house a 4spd Griffon type box and a gear driven primary. It even maintains the terrible Greeves cylinder mounting flange which cracks and falls off even on a 350.  Apparently Spondon fitted a 5pd  cluster in to make it more suitable for road racing.  The Greeves club have all the drawings I think so it shouldn't be too difficult to make one.

Either the SELVA or the QUB would indeed be eligible in Europe and for the IHRO 2 class and would be a great bike, though it would need some awesome drum brakes. The people at the sharp end are still fitting a lot of new tyres though!
Cheers,

Will Loder

Andy Guy

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2019, 12:54:45 PM »
The later version of the qub now restored, uses a mk2 seeley with what looks like a unit bottom end but with a right hand drive chain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI3oCqoaUQg

Look on the top shelf behind him. The other bike.

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Will Loder

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2019, 01:48:21 PM »
The bike he's sitting on has either a mk3 or a yamsel/seeley Suzuki type frame you can see where the 2 large diameter tubes cross over, this isn't on the mk2 or mk4. The one on the top shelf is the first qub 500 which is definately a mk3 with an and box and the QUB engine that is photographed here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/898480000282658/permalink/1416734721790514/


https://2img.net/h/i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb365/TrevorAmos/QUB500Seeley.jpg

Although it looks a bit like a Greeves none of this are production Greeves castings.

The bike in front of the shelves is the 250 QUB...I wish that was my garage!


 
Cheers,

Will Loder

Andy Guy

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2019, 01:57:25 PM »
I bet you would. I think 90% of folk on the forum would too.

Do you know who I contact in the Greeves club to see what drawings are available for the unit 500?
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Will Loder

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2019, 02:26:01 PM »
I'm not a member but I think the main man at the club is called Rob Thornton, his contact details are on the ACU website, he should be able to point you in the right direction..
Cheers,

Will Loder

David Tetley

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2019, 10:23:46 PM »
I can't add anything to this but talking about Frank Ball I picked up a Greeves engine, gearbox and exhaust from someone that was clearing his stuff out around the time of the auctions. There was quite a few interesting bits thrown on the floor in the barn I went to.

Vince Gunning.... thats where the small mountain mile type fairing came from that I passed on to you.

Andy Guy

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2019, 01:56:55 AM »
David.

Can you remember the auction company and who the seller was?
All items will be catalogued and the purchaser recorded.  I have, since i started this thread been informed the selava engine complete with the close 5 speed gearbox was in his possession.
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Ron Herring

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2019, 01:58:11 AM »
Will
  your supposition that the first QUB racer was a 250 is correct. It was 57 bore x 48 stroke twin, with a transverse cylindrical intake valve behind the cylinders. It was also installed in a Seeley modified frame, see attached pic.

The 500 MX unit was a full 500 cc single, same bore and stroke as the road racer, but with very different porting, and was known as a URM 500.
For those interested, SAE paper 740745 details the development of this MX unit as well as further development of the road racer

Andy Wilson

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2019, 08:21:25 AM »
Not wanting to stray off topic, but do you know what tyre size that running Ron?  Front must be a 16" by the look of it. Unusual in the day I would imagine.
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Will Loder

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2019, 01:02:01 PM »
The Auction company who originally sold everything was Cheffins, there is some info in the original GRA forum thread I put a link to earlier. 

I'm pretty sure David bought that engine off ebay because I was bidding on the same one! they were also selling an Oulton frame and a Silverstone frame which had been seriously hacked about.  Frank's complete bike has changed hands at least once since then as it was advertised in OBM shortly after that auction.  I never saw the 500 engine come up for sale anywhere.
Cheers,

Will Loder

Andy Guy

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2019, 02:22:12 PM »
Thanks again Will. Spoke to Rob Thornton. Looks like he follows your racing with great interest and would like the opportunity to speak with you about your bike. I reckon he could pull some strings and get a feature in the acu mag. Could be another 15 minutes of fame.
Do you know what the farm was called. I can only see that it is Cambridge area?

Ron
Thank you and happy new year. I've had a look into down loading the two SAE articles and Rob seems up for going through the Greeves records so we may be able to update/create drawings into 3d from the originals. As I was searching for the articles I found two more engine pictures of the 500 unit engine. One was the Qub bike and the other the motocrosser.  Both pictures show a right hand chain drive. So at some point the Greeves bike must have tried the Qub engine or at least the bottom end.



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Will Loder

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2019, 07:15:43 PM »
Sadly I don't know what the farm was called. I've met Rob a few times in the Isle of Man, he's a really nice bloke, but has a habit of turning up to take photos for the club magazine when I'm loading the bikes into the van!
Cheers,

Will Loder

Andy Guy

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2019, 10:16:48 PM »
Ah the old better late than never. :)
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Steve Adlem

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2019, 11:36:01 PM »
Not wanting to stray off topic, but do you know what tyre size that running Ron?  Front must be a 16" by the look of it. Unusual in the day I would imagine.

Andy, my guess would be that the picture was scanned from a magazine and is distorted where the page didn't lay flat!

I have seen things like that before, but I think the clue is the way the standard looking Seeley mudguard tracks the tyre!

Rear looks like standard Dunlop KR73 which would most likely be 19" or 18"!  Front might well be the matching KR76 triangular.

Tony Lockwood

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Re: Spondon 500 SELVA
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2019, 08:00:18 PM »
Hi, I have the Frank Ball Oulton racer that I have been sprinting last year, goes very well. (Won the Southern NSA championship in the up to 500 non Jap class). I also have the original 500 engine as shown in the Greeve's book by Mick Walker that reading a thread on this forum might be the Selva engine mentioned?. I need gearbox internals but have all the big bits. Intend to get it going and parade/sprint it. Looking for any info people might know of the bike and Frank, although I know he died in a light aircraft accident in 2009. The engine number of the Oulton is GPD 122 so might have been a spare engine or was there 22 oultons not 21?